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Avalikia
85 Posts
Joined May 2020
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Post by Pamela Isley on Jun 17, 2020 23:47:08 GMT -7
Pamela inclined her head to his point when he called real happiness an illusion. She would certainly agree that the world was miserable enough that anyone who wasn't at least the slightest bit depressed about it was simply not realistic. But she elected to let the idea of some form of joy drug rest for the moment - if he still wanted it after they were through with the rest of their conversation she was sure that he would bring it up again before she left.
He would indeed find it difficult to find her test case, but that was precisely why she'd chosen it - nobody would look too closely into someone jumping off a building when it happened every other week. "Well, I admit that I wasn't fond of him," she answered with a shrug. Though even that wouldn't help much in locating the specific victim because not only did she know a lot of people, she also could know a lot of people - especially since suicide, in general, was more common in the upper classes.
"But no, no suggestion required - I didn't say a word. As I'm sure you know, certain drugs cause hallucinations - it's just that you never know what you'll get with those, which is probably the appeal. I simply ensured that it would be the hallucination I wanted, and also much more powerful. And voilà - I don't think he even realized something was amiss on his way down," she explained, her tone remarkably casual considering the subject matter. But she was simply relaying the details of a science experiment.
There was a comfortable pause then, and Pamela simply sipped her water and waited because she could see that Oswald's mind was working. It wasn't long before he asked a question that caused her own mind to have to stop to consider. "Hmm... possibly. To make it particular to a person then the target would probably need to be... marked in some way - they'd need to be dosed with something as well. Unless I had access to them beforehand so that I could gear it to their... unique biology. But there would be no reason why the number of people infected couldn't be as high as the number of doses you have available, though like I said, this is difficult to do," she said, reminding him that it would take time and be expensive - so the number of people would be limited by how long he was willing to wait and how much money he was willing to give her for it.
"Another issue to consider is that my test was very... self-limiting. I don't know how long it would have lasted if that weren't the case, and it certainly wouldn't have been permanent. Of course, if the length of time is an issue, I ought to be able to extend it, but that might also be difficult," she admitted, trying to explain how certain applications of this might quickly layer difficulty upon difficulty. Mind control was powerful but it wasn't at all easy. She thought it was worth it, though, because if she could have her way then everyone would be under her spell.
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Post by Oswald Cobblepot on Jun 29, 2020 13:42:26 GMT -7
Ivy's comment on the man who jumped to his doom narrowed things further, Oswald now at least knew Ivy had known them well enough to form an opinion. That likely ruled out most poorer people. The fact that she didn't like them didn't help much though as Ozzy didn't imagine that she liked many people. She was after all dealing in poisons, clearly a cold blooded killer and was willing to talk to him. It seemed unlikely that she would have many friends with similar interests.
He'd look in to it anyway, maybe narrow down a short list of possibilities so he could make an educated guess but he was unlikely to uncover the identity of the man. It may not matter anyway but a secret was something he was always keen to know. Even the small ones could be the thread that would unravel a world.
Swirling his drink slowly in his glass Oswald had much to think of "How is it you tailor the hallucination and to what level of detail can you get?" He never would have considered that she may be able to create such a thing or he would have asked for it sooner. The possibilities were endless. The reliance on her to make them was uncomfortable. The possibility of being under the influence of them when he didn't know how they worked was a concern. How do you trust your eyes when your mind could be lying? She made it sound hard to make but he had only her word on that. He needed to know more.
To bring two people together required them both to be dosed or additional work would be needed, that seemed important. To influence a crowd they would all need to be dosed, which seemed much the same as any poison. He did give himself a little mental reassurance that he poured his own scotch from his bottle. He was safe enough provided he could trust his own mind to at least that point. He was pretty certain that he couldn't be under her influence but there was always that little voice which needed to be reassured...though it did put up less of a fight while she was in the room and actually influencing him a bit.
Oswald rolled his drink between his fingers. He had ideas and this had potential for a great many things "I would be willing to finance another test and some of this particular concoction. Might I propose..." he pauses for a second, thinking again "A hallucination of drowning. As long as you can make it but preferably at least 10 minutes" enough to certainly kill any normal person if they were actually drowning. Whether a hallucination could stop someone from breathing when they were desperately trying to he wanted to see. Just the very feeling was likely to cause enough panic "And" he continues, raising a finger "an antidote to go with it"
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Character Info
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Avalikia
85 Posts
Joined May 2020
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Post by Pamela Isley on Jun 30, 2020 6:16:19 GMT -7
It was true that Pamela didn't have very many friends. She did have 'friends', who she pretended to be fond of because it was useful for maintaining her social position if she had sufficient breadth of other rich socialites to exchange gossip with, but only about zero of them were people she actually cared about. This was why she could sell poison to anyone who could pay what she was charging without thinking twice about the consequences. The entire city could be wiped out and she wouldn't care much - just as long as she and her plants were fine.
At Oswald's next question, she had to quickly remind herself that he was no scientist so she ought to give as simple of an answer to what was actually a quite technical question. "Different chemicals affect the brain differently, so it's a matter of isolating the ones that have the effect that I want. I'm no psychologist so I couldn't tell you why, but imagining that you can fly is a primal notion - people the world over literally dream about it. So the thought is already there, and it simply needs to be triggered so strongly that it seems to be a reality," she explained as best she could, trying not to resort to speaking about specific chemicals that he's probably never heard of anyways.
Though he was perhaps right to be concerned that it or something of that nature could affect him unawares - while she'd seen someone resist her chemicals before, she'd seen that virtually everyone else was completely helpless to what she inflicted upon them. And not that she thought little of Oswald's intelligence, at least not when compared to anyone else, but she doubted that he had it in him. Of course, she didn't have to fear that any of it would be turned against her - she was immune.
As she'd hoped, as that had been the point of telling him about it in the first place, now that he knew what was within her capability he was interested in exploring that more. Though his specific idea caused her eyes to widen in slight surprise, and she commented, "Oh, what a way to torture someone!" Not that she was at all opposed to the idea, but that wasn't the sort of thing that normally came to her own mind. Some might call what she did torture, but that was never the point of it. Though she could see the utility immediately. When he insisted an antidote, she half-jokingly commented, "Oh, well, if you insist..."
She took a sip of water as she pondered the idea for a moment. "Hmm, drowning - another primal thought..." she said, thinking out loud, "That shouldn't be any more difficult than believing you can fly. I'm not sure if it would cause someone to stop breathing or not - if they stopped breathing entirely then they'd be dead faster than ten minutes. Though it's possible they would simply pass out and then resume breathing normally once they were unconscious - perhaps even waking and believing themselves to be drowning again. Though it's also possible that they would manage to get enough air even though they didn't believe that they were and remain conscious the full time..." She took another thoughtful sip of her water, and added, "Definitely an interesting experiment."
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49 Posts
Joined May 2020
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Post by Oswald Cobblepot on Jul 15, 2020 14:21:07 GMT -7
Oswald had only ever acted friendly to people, to actually form some sort of connection where people were more than simply tools to be used would be foolish...Well, there was almost one time when the world was simpler and he was studying endangered birds with fellow ornithologists in the Amazon where things might have gone differently but those were the days of foolish youth before he was called back to Gotham and the reality of maintaining his family name. He would perhaps care more if the city was wiped out though. His family history was tided to the history of Gotham and it did make him a lot of money.
While Cobblepot knows some aspects of biology or at least the basics such as chemicals can cause various reactions in the body he did not care enough for the subject to learn it in depth. He knew what would kill someone, what could be hidden, what would be addictive but he was no scientist and he had no desire to take up his time learning to becoming one and make these things himself when he could pay someone else like Ivy to do it for him. He liked to know enough to ensure he wasn't getting ripped off. Ivy had shown her skill already and what she said seemed to make some sense.
Oswald sipped from his drink as he thought on primal ideas. If it was easier to work with such impulses that still left a lot of options. Even things there appeared complex could often be traced back to the same basic desires "The notion is intriguing. Free will is often the greatest foe in an otherwise simple plan. I am curious too what will happen when the effect has worn off. Will they believe the actions were their own choice or reject them...though the reaction would no doubt depend highly on the scenario and the target involved"
He idly wondered if there was anything he could come up with that would have shocked Ivy in to refusing the task as she looked a little surprised. He imagined there as but it wouldn't involve horrific ways of killing people. She clearly didn't care for people and had no problem torturing them. He looked slightly amused as she clearly didn't object to the idea. All these high society women, they act so innocent and proper on the outside but half of them would kill just for the latest fashion. Ivy was at least honest in her disregard for life behind closed doors.
"A normal man would be dead faster than ten minutes. In this city it is safer to double that" he interjects as he's listening to her thought process. If he had a chance to drown Batman on air he would but he definitely didn't trust the bat to die like a normal man "I too am curious if the mind would stop the body acquiring the readily available air. There is just one way to find out. If you can create this I will acquire suitable test subject to satisfy our curiosity"
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Character Info
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Avalikia
85 Posts
Joined May 2020
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Post by Pamela Isley on Jul 16, 2020 3:46:45 GMT -7
It was all too easy for Pamela to feel a certain sense of superiority as she spoke about her craft. After all, it was exceedingly difficult for other people to understand if it wasn't explained in the most basic terms, let alone do anything with that knowledge. For her, it was, well, not exactly easy but it wasn't really a struggle either - a new creation may take hours or days but she didn't feel like she was out on a limb and guessing very often.
Still, she could appreciate that Oswald could absorb what she was saying, even if it was simplified - not everyone could even do that much. It was nice because that meant he saw more possibilities and made more interesting requests - not only now but also in the past. He wasn't the only customer who bought her poisons but he was honestly the favorite - not that being the favorite of that group was that high of a title because she absolutely despised most of them.
"Well, given the fate of my test subject, I don't know. Though my educated guess is that if it's administered in a subtle enough way that the cause isn't blatantly obvious, they would assume that the cause was internal - 'I'm not sure what came over me' they might say. The thought, present but buried in the subconscious, is pulled to the surface - not inserted like a foreign object that would be identified as alien to the mind," she explained. Well, unless the person managed to resist the thought entirely, thus becoming aware that they were manipulated, but she didn't mention that out loud. It only happened once, after all.
Though she wasn't phased by the thought of torture, she wasn't a sadist so it wasn't really her style - at least it wouldn't be except in a situation that felt deeply personal to her. That being the case she preferred to be quick and efficient when killing and soft and sweet with her interrogations, but she was far from horrified by the idea of making something that wasn't - it was an interesting academic exercise for her. The pain and suffering of others meant nothing to her so the question was whether or not she could make what she was being asked - and she thought that she could and that it would be fun to find out.
She nodded to his point about not making assumptions about the time frame. "Ten it is, then," she agreed. She too knew that it was better to be safe than sorry about such things. "It won't be a cheap test, but if you like the results then it would be much less expensive to refine it further and to buy as much of it as you would like," she commented, reminding him that she expected to be well-paid but at the same time explaining why it would be worth it. Even if she didn't know exactly how the test would turn out, she imagined that Oswald would have a use for it regardless of the specifics just as long as it worked at all in the first place - and she didn't doubt that it would.
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49 Posts
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Post by Oswald Cobblepot on Aug 9, 2020 11:53:47 GMT -7
Oswald understands money and Ivy's creations bring him it. While he might not understand the ins and outs of her craft he could appreciate the uses. He also has a passion for destroying people. Sometimes that can require a little imagination. To make something appear like an accident or to blame someone else took a subtly and attention to detail that a simple murderous thug lacked. There was of course other times when the right situation presented the right way would sway a person or where gutting the soul out of a person was worse than killing them. Oswald of course could also be the murderous thug when the mood took him and he was angry but he liked to think of himself more as the refined puppet master who planned the perfect crime even if his temper sometimes took him in another direction.
An inventive outlook on these things meant he appreciates options and while he would always be happy to have her make things he could resell for a profit he's also more than willing to have her experiment with her things when he finds ideas with so much potential. It does keep things interesting and off the top of his head he could imagine endless possibilities that would open with mind control on his side. Particularly when the source of that power wasn't completely insane and impossible to work with.
"Another thing we can test...Assuming the subject survives this time. Perhaps a less potentially deadly serum may also be required to test the after effects. Though if it varies from person to person that would be inconvenient" he was hoping the drowning idea would kill someone of course but that would still leave many questions unanswered. He would prefer if things worked predictably too but to find that out would require multiple test subjects and by that point it was starting to sound more like science and less like fun "People are unfortunately complicated things which rarely work the same, a uniform response is preferable. There will always be that one who sees through the game"
He waves his hand to the idea that it would be expensive, he'd been expecting nothing less "When is anything fun also cheap? If we wanted a cheap and easy way to kill someone that's what guns are for. This is for..." he gives it a moment of thought. What would he really use this for? Depends how much he has and the limitations on it. At worst perhaps a demonstration or personal vengeance, at best a way to control the masses to his way of thinking "A higher class of dastardly design. A component of finesse"
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Character Info
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Avalikia
85 Posts
Joined May 2020
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Post by Pamela Isley on Aug 10, 2020 18:54:33 GMT -7
When Oswald noted that different people sometimes have different reactions, Pamela's lips pursed just slightly at the reminder. It was inevitable, of course, but she didn't like it. "Well, since you want an antidote to go with it, I'd imagine that it would only be deadly if you want it to be, either way. Though being brought out of it chemically might itself cause a different recollection of events. Assuming that the antidote works at all," she commented, willing to admit that it might not.
The antidote was another thing that would need to be tested - while she didn't doubt her skills at producing the cure for her own concoction, the tricky thing with antidotes was that some things simply killed people too quickly for the cure to take effect before it was too late. She didn't think this particular serum would be one of those, but the whole point in testing it would be to confirm things like that.
"Though if you wish to use it on someone you intend to keep alive afterward, there is also the question of to what degree there might be a lingering psychological effect," she noted because that was also a possibility when one started messing with someone's head. But she knew that wasn't necessarily a positive or a negative either - it simply changed who he might use it on, depending on whether or not he wanted their mental faculties to be intact or not.
With all the questions that they had about how it might work, she was beginning to realize that they might need more than one test to learn everything they would want to know about it. But she would leave that detail up to Oswald - once it was confirmed that it worked at all, he could always test it further in 'real world' situations. She was quite certain that he had no lack when it came to people whose well-being he didn't care about. In fact, he'd have a much easier time of it than she would - while not being a known criminal meant that she was able to appear in public whenever she wanted, it also meant that she had the burden of maintaining that status so getting test subjects without getting caught could be difficult.
She smiled at how uncaring he was about the cost, as she quite agreed that killing someone the cheap and easy way wasn't necessarily the best way. In fact, it was all too easy for her to list off the disadvantages of guns, so she did. "You can't always be sure whether or not someone you shoot will actually die, or whether or not it will be quick, whether you want that or not. It's also very loud and unsubtle, even if it's small. And it can often be too easily traced," she stated, not even having to think about it first, "Besides, literally anyone can just shoot someone." Which meant, like he said, her toxins and other concoctions were definitely higher class.
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49 Posts
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Post by Oswald Cobblepot on Sept 7, 2020 15:51:32 GMT -7
The world would be so much easier if everyone behaved predictably but then there wouldn't be people like Ozzy to take advantage of that so what would be the point? "The key is to be deadly when it is desired. Killing someone accidentally is an unfortunate blunder but leaving someone alive that must die can be disastrous" of course he thinks not killing someone you intended to is far worse than accidentally killing someone by mistake. At least if they were dead you knew they weren't off talking to people and they generally stayed where you put them.
Finishing his drink finally Oswald stood, giving the vulture on the table a light pat on the head as he passed, going back to his desk "I have every confidence that you will succeed in this creation and its antidote and should you require anything to aid its creation and testing I'm sure that can be arranged" the bird, encouraged by the bit of attention seemed intent to get more and hopped off the table, spreading its wings a bit as it followed Ozzy with an ungainly walk.
"That may be considered an advantage" Oswald remarked to her comment on the psychological effects because driving people crazy also had its potential uses. Ozzy waves his hand vaguely in the air as he walks around the desk "Though of course, testing, unknown possibilities, et cetera" the practicalities of actually testing new inventions was clearly beginning to bore him. He liked results more than the work that has to go in to them and only really appreciated work when it was his own.
Sitting at his desk Oswald draws out a cigarette to light as he notices Ju had followed him and he angles his umbrella so the vulture can climb up and perch up on the back of his chair in her rightful place, towering over him like a fierce looming shadow...who makes sweet chirping noises as she pecks at the edge of his hat. Oswald of course doesn't mind. "That depends how many times you shoot them" he says with a dry chuckle "It is a simple and messy method. Suitable for a quick solution where there is inadequate time for planning" or when you're really mad and just want to shoot someone as is frequently his case "There are more ways to end a life than hairs upon your head" certainly more than hairs upon Ozzy's head "Your work does open a number of entertaining options however"
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Avalikia
85 Posts
Joined May 2020
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Post by Pamela Isley on Sept 12, 2020 19:36:31 GMT -7
"Well, if you mean to kill someone and they don't die, it's easy enough to try again. Kill someone on accident, though, and... well, that's it, isn't it? There's no going back," Pamela stated, easily offering her own perspective on that problem. It was much different than Oswald's because when she killed someone it was usually up close and personal, meaning that if they managed to survive she usually knew immediately and before they had a chance to escape. By contrast, in the rare event that she was doing anything at all to someone she didn't want to kill, it was usually very important that they didn't die.
She watched as Oswald stood and headed back to his desk. Her own drink was nearly finished and, though she didn't necessarily feel obligated to either finish it or stop at one when it was merely water, it still seemed to indicate a natural stopping point to the conversation. Especially since she could see that Oswald was beginning to tire of the subject of the logistics of test subjects. She herself was a scientist and so the topic was one of great interest to her, but even more so the conversation had put her in the right mindset to go and actually create the serum he was wanting so that she could test it in accordance with proper scientific principles.
"When it's ready I will request that you provide the initial test subject for it, but that should be all that I need from you," she noted, "A medically uninteresting adult male." Something she doubted would be difficult for him to acquire for her. While she could certainly find her own test subjects, it was more difficult for her and not something she wanted to do when testing something she wasn't making for herself.
Her eyebrow lifted delicately as Oswald extolled the virtues of ending someone via a hail of bullets. A rather... inelegant method in her taste, but she acknowledged its validity with a wave of her hand. She would never do such a thing, but she supposed that it was... effective. "And you are a muse of malicious methodology," she replied, as he really did inspire some of her work even if she wasn't about to start shooting people on his recommendation.
Setting aside her finished glass of water, she stood and added, "It was lovely to sit and chat with you for awhile, darling, but unless there is anything else to discuss it seems that I have a lot of work to do." Difficult work that would surely help stretch her abilities that much more - the fact that Oswald would be paying her for doing it was merely a small bonus in her mind.
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49 Posts
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Post by Oswald Cobblepot on Oct 6, 2020 16:56:25 GMT -7
"A corpse is a certainty. You know the practical problems of the situation, where they are, what needs to be done. A dead man walking is a far more dangerous prospect. Certainly one would hope it is easy to try again and finish the job but some people have an irritating talent of living through things. What they do with their continued existence can be disastrous" anyone who lived long enough to call themselves a hero in this city for instance had an unfortunate habit of avoiding death no matter how much you tried to kill them and no near death experience seemed to be enough to stop them.
Oswald would likely enjoy the initial testing, seeing what would happen to the unwitting test subject but the repetition needed to ensure real, reliable science just wasn't his thing. He would appreciate the results more than the methods. He waved a hand at her request for the test subject "Easily done, advise me of where to send them when you are ready" he probably expected this to be far easier and faster than it actually was of course.
He just smiled and chuckled at the 'muse of malicious methodology'. He liked that. He considered it a compliment. He didn't necessarily advocate her shooting everyone but he saw it as merely another tool to be used in the right circumstances. He preferred the subtle methods when he had the time to plan for them but he if he had the choice of shooting Batman dead or putting him in some convoluted trap to escape from he'd learnt that a bullet was an acceptable solution.
He stood moments after she did, realising they had come to an end of the deal. Of course he was never going to be happy to see her leave, charming and full of pheromones as she was, he did understand that if he didn't see her off he wouldn't get new things to sell and like every other woman she would no doubt tire of him unless he started actually spending money on her. He smiled and moved to walk to the door with her so he could open it for her, bowing his head with a tip of his hat in the process "I have always found our conversations to be a delight and I look forward to seeing the results of your research but please do feel free to drop by at any time. It has been a pleasure my dear"
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Character Info
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Avalikia
85 Posts
Joined May 2020
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Post by Pamela Isley on Oct 11, 2020 17:26:25 GMT -7
"Oh, well, I must yield to your greater experience on that point," Pamela replied graciously. Because though she'd taken a few steps into criminality, they were small and careful ones. And unless you count a physical altercation with Batman as an attempt to kill him, she simply hadn't tried to kill anyone who would be particularly disastrous to her alive. At worst they might have attempted to tell the police of the attempt, but she had a particular knack for talking her way out of such problems and was good at hiding evidence. Not that she'd ever failed to kill anyone before in the first place - she was quite good at it and didn't actually attempt it very often.
She nodded when he agreed to provide the test subject, and noted, "It may take some time for me to get to that stage - it's a rather difficult thing to create, after all - but I will keep you informed about my progress." Though she suspected that it would probably take longer than he was guessing and she wanted to be able to give him at least some idea, it wasn't something she knew herself. In theory, it shouldn't take longer than the first time because she presumably knew more about what she was doing, but she'd already experienced enough research snags in the past that she knew even that much wasn't guaranteed so the best she could do at the moment was a vague warning - giving an actual timeframe and then failing to deliver within it was actually worse than that.
Not that she felt any concern about what Oswald would do if she disappointed him by being late or failing at it completely - they had such an obviously cordial and beneficial working relationship that she was confident that it would take more than that to ruin it. On the other hand, she didn't want any bad marks on her record with him if she could avoid it - she knew the advantages of being seen as reliable, after all.
Especially by a man that she was certain she would be working with for quite a while. Not that she didn't find many things about him horribly irritating, but that's how she felt about everyone and he somehow had fewer of them than most people. It was probably the combination of having proper manners (such a rarity these days!) and treating her like the beautiful woman she was without treating her like a beautiful woman he could have. It also wasn't difficult at all to keep the man genuinely very pleased with her, no drugging necessary, while being actually very useful himself - a truly symbiotic relationship. At least as long as he never turned on her, which she would never put past him...
"The pleasure is all mine, darling," she said with a smile as she walked toward the door he was so graciously holding open for her, "I'll keep in touch, and do let me know if there's anything else you would like." She spared a glance behind her at the box she'd delivered, suspecting that he'd run out of some of it well before she was finished with this new project. "Until later!" she added, waving as she headed out.
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